Friday, October 10, 2008
Oedipus and the Inquiry into Perfection
From what you know about Oedipus now, and what you will know when you finish the play, how do you think the Greeks dealt with the role of Fate in the the human inquiry into perfection? In other words, how much can/could humanity actually do to achieve Beauty, Truth, Freedom, etc. alone?
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I believe that the Greeks put most of their faith into the gods of their time. They believed that the gods held the key to their fate. Greeks could not choose the paths that they took, it was in the hands of the gods. even if the Greeks tried to out smart the gods it was their fate to live the life the gods wanted them to. Greeks had no control over their own fate. In a sense they were like puppets, marching to the beat of the gods.
The Greeks looked at fate as if it was the end all be all when in came to how their lives would play out. They even go above and beyond to demonstrate how powerful fate is in every story they have written. The make sure to illustrate the fact that no matter what you do you cant evaded you preordained fate, as was the case with Oedipus.
Fate seems to be doled out by the gods. The Greeks seemed to believe if someone is fated to do or be something, then they have no choice but to follow that path. Humanity seems to be completely subject to the will of the gods, and in that case, a person could strive to achieve perfection but unless they are fated by the gods to achieve such a position, they will never realize their goal.
Although the Greeks did strive for perfection, I think they ultimately believed fate controlled every outcome. In "dealing" with fate, they probably just accepted whatever happened, because they believed everything was the will of the gods. Some Christians believe God has a complete plan for their lives, and that every single thing that happens is meant to happen, whether it be good or bad. These people still live as best they can, just as the Greeks still tried to obtain perfection, even if they believe(d) their fate is/was uncontrollable.
I think the Greeks were big believer in predestination. They may not have said something specific things about deities picking there fates but they do mention that they have a fate. They make that clear with the way oedipus managed to complete his fate without knowing it and while trying to avoid it.
The Greeks were people who's lives were guided by the gods and fate. Even though the Greeks had beauty, freedom, justice, balance, etc...they didn't believe they had these because they were perfect, but because of fate. To them, they were meant to have those values, and it was up to the God's to decide in what ways they presented those values.
the Greeks accept the role of fate in their inquiry to perfection. They realize that beauty (even though it fades), freedom from invaders and enslavement, truth etc. are all in the hands of the gods. This doens't hinder their pursuit just adds to it. They try to find ways to make the other gods intervene on their behalf in order to skew fate in their favor. They recognized that human inteligence and perfection can always be undone by what fate throws your way. Humans can do all that we want to try and achieve our idea of perfection but their still is an outside force that can knock that notion out of your head.
I believe that the Greeks dealt with their role of fate by putting all their trust in their Gods. The Greeks believed that their fate was already planned at their birth and there was no way they could escape that. Greeks could not alter the path that wazs orginally chosen for them as see in the play "Oedipus, The King". Oedipus's fate was altered a little bit when he exiled himself from the country, but the prophecy still held truth as he did kill his fateher, marry his mother, and father her children. The power of the Gods are true and they determine your fate, all you can do is live it.
I agree with sgreen, the Greeks did put most of their faith in the Gods and believed that they held the key to their faith. They did not hold any control. And I think you provided a great example when saying, "In a sense they were like puppets, marching to the beat of the Gods".
It seems the Greeks believed that, ultimately, perfection could only come from the gods. Humanity might be able to change the way things may come about, but this unwavering belief in fate indicates that the outcome will be the same, regardless how you got there. The important thing then would be to try and strive for perfection as much as possible, and if it was meant to be, then it would be.
I agree with sgreen, the Greeks did put alot of their faith into their gods. They felt as though the gods controlled their fate. Even when the people tried to out smart the gods and create their own fate, fate always seemed to find them like in the story of Oedipus. Like sgreen said these people were the puppets of the gods, and no matter how hard they tried their free will just brought them back to the fate selected by the gods.
In response to Danielle,
I don’t think the people of ancient Greece realized that all their values and happenings in their lives, that’s just what they inferred from observing the world around them. They used the explanation of “gods did it” to explain things that seemed supernatural (beauty, truth, etc) and to explain why life can suddenly turn on you for no apparent reason. If the horrible and unpredictable things in life just happen, then people have no one to blame, no explanation for their sudden unfortunate luck. However, if the gods are to blame for the horrible occurrences in life, then it’s because you’ve fallen out of favor with them or upset them. In that case, you not only have a reason for personal tragedy, you also have a chance to win back the gods favor. People like to think that they’re watched over, that someone is at the wheel, and that that someone has a direct influence in their lives, be it good or bad.
It totally agree with chuck's comment that "If the horrible and unpredictable things in life just happen, then people have no one to blame...However, if the gods are to blame for the horrible occurrences in life, then it’s because you’ve fallen out of favor with them." The Greeks wanted explanations for why good, but even more so, why bad things happened to them, as humans still do today. It was comforting to them to be able to do things to get back on the good side of the gods after their luck turned. Again, they strove for beauty, optimism, etc, but they believed it was all ultimately in the gods' control.
The Greeks really couldn't do that much to controll their fate. It seems that no matter what their intention or goal was life got in the way and it was usually very dramatic...their humanity and need to be in controll sometimes got them into more trouble than they desired. Kind of like me, the more I think I have controll over certain situations the more problems it causes. It is human nature to try to controll and be perfect but the more we seek this, it sometimes leads to our downfall.
Ok, the Greeks sort of thought they were gods, and you can see this because their man made Gods were very human like. So, I think it is safe to say that they were in constant struggle with who hade the power...them or the gods. The pursuit into perfection kept them in constant chaos and out of serenity because they were trying to be gods themselves.
I agree with sgreen and Jgriffin, the Greeks saw fate as everything to them. Evenmore, fate was like a guidance to the events that were to happen in their lives. In addition, they had no control over what happened or what could happen in their life, and that showed how powerful fate was in their lives.
I agree with jgriffin that the focus of many Greek stories seem to focus a great deal on the inescapable reality of fate. Even when one tries specifically to avoid their fate, their actions are for naught, and it may even be that these countermeasures actually result in a prophecy being self-fulfilled.
to chuck, ok so i agree that people want to feel watched over etc..by the gods. They put their faith in them because of the happenings in the world around them. That's where they looked to for reason. The gods. Oedipus was cursed by the gods from birth. What offense did he commit to fall from favor? His personal tragedy was he was stupid. Agamenon directly offended the gods and then he was cursed. He was still eventually able to prevail displaying a level of human perfection without that particular gods favor. Not always is your suggestion so. The Greeks accepted the role of the gods in their lives and put their faith into them. The pursuit of perfection still existed they accepted their shortcomings and mishappenings as some act of a god. With so many gods it's easy to understand why the Greeks believed the gods could be creating the conflict in your life.
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